December 30

3x BB Pre-Flop Raise
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 4:06 PM by admin

Is betting 3x or 4x BB pre-flop on pretty much every hand within my "range" when in early-mid positions a good strategy to rigidly follow? not necessarily 100% but as a basic strategy?

1. Disguise hand strength since AA appears the same as low suited connectors or mid-pairs
2. pressure on blinds; thins out crowd
3. if anyone comes over the top then you know its probably safe to dump the hand without too much loss unless your holding premiums
4. have the option of post flop raises which appear very strong since you also pre-flopped raise (maybe even a bluff at this point?) and villains would probably dump any **** hand, letting you know who’s a real contender if they stick around
5. could check to set traps
6. 4 and 5 could be mixed up to confuse opponents (IE: you check, he thinks your trapping; you’re just looking for a free card really…this time)

What’s some of your guys’ strategies? since this seems to be a major part of the game, if you can’t handle pre-flop well then you probably wont see many pots come your way.

|||Yes, never base your raise on your hand strength. Rather base it on position. In early position you want to put less money in the pot then in late position. So early I tend to raise around 2.5-3 BB but in late position I tend to raise 3.5-5 bb. Also base the amount of your raise on the table. If raising 3BB from EP still get’s you five limpers, then raise 6BB or even 10BB, whatever it takes. Or, online, move tables

|||4bb as a standard from all positions 10nl and lower (3bb BU if you want).
25nl and higher 3bb from all possies.
If someone limps add a bb per limper as a general rule.
If a fish limps and calls pre almost no matter what make it LARGE like 6x

|||Quote:Originally Posted by tisaOr, online, move tables Good point lol, those micro stakes games I think people just limp call everything with the sole purpose to make your life worse.

|||Quote:Good point lol, those micro stakes games I think people just limp call everything with the sole purpose to make your life worse.No, to make your bankroll better. I just mean if you find it hard to play an aggro loose table, look for a tighter one in the lobby (low avg pot size, low number of players to the flop). Don’t move up limits.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by tisaYes, never base your raise on your hand strength. Rather base it on position. In early position you want to put less money in the pot then in late position. So early I tend to raise around 2.5-3 BB but in late position I tend to raise 3.5-5 bb. Also base the amount of your raise on the table. If raising 3BB from EP still get’s you five limpers, then raise 6BB or even 10BB, whatever it takes. Or, online, move tables It’s the other way around. You should raise less in LP and more in EP you will be oop often. Since your range is much weaker in LP and you often have Position. I make it 3.5x EP, CO 3x BTN 2.5x, SB 3.5x. 3x from all Position is fine too i would say, unless you get 3B a ton from the blinds then maybe lower your size in LP

|||Quote:It’s the other way around. You should raise less in LP and more in EP you will be oop often. Since your range is much weaker in LP and you often have Position. I make it 3.5x EP, CO 3x BTN 2.5x, SB 3.5x. 3x from all Position is fine too i would say, unless you get 3B a ton from the blinds then maybe lower your size in LP O.o

Dude seriously if you believe this, you should start evaluating your game ASAP.

You raise less in EP because
a) raising from EP always show strength, 2.5 BB is enough to say I have something
b) you will get 3bet far more from EP then from LP because of the simple reason that more villains to act behind you
c) if you get called you will be out of position, you will lose the pot a lot more
d) raising from LP doesn’t necessary mean that you are strong, you can eg. raise to steal so you raise more to put pressure
e) if you get called from LP you will be in position, which rules, you will win the hand far more often then out of position

|||uhm like every of your points is wrong last one is true

|||I have to agree with DieHard at least if we’re talking about no limit.

a) 2.5BB is enough to show strength but our goal isn’t to show it but rather to get value with our stronger hands.
b) We’ll be 3bet more but if we’re raising from EP our range is also a lot stronger. Please 3bet me if I have AA-JJ.
c) Not entirely true. We’re playing stronger hands. And if you do say we lose more then we should discourage callers (by betting more) so that we don’t have to play the hand out of position.
d) Now the opposite is true. Why put more money in when our hands are generally weaker? This is the spot where we’ll be 3bet more and fold more often because our range is weaker and because it looks more like a steal.
e) With this I can agree. But if we’re in position it’s also easier to control pot size during the hand so there’s no need to bloat the pot preflop.

And this is also good advice:
Quote:If someone limps add a bb per limper as a general rule.
If a fish limps and calls pre almost no matter what make it LARGE like 6x

|||Oh boy…I’m so wrong!

Have you guys moved up yet to where they respect your play?? I haven’t, maybe that’s why I don’t get it!

tnx!

|||Tisa, in microstakes often our play won’t be respected because fish have no idea what they’re doing but that’s ok because they’ll make loads of mistakes.

That’s why it’s better to play more ABC poker with less bluffing and by putting more money in when our hands are generally better (depending on position, not on hand strength). Also, taking away pots in position only works if the opponent knows how to fold.

3/4 months ago I followed the same logic you did until someone opened my eyes. I’m glad we could do the same for you.

By the way, you’re in Belgium? Me too!

|||At 2NL, my standard open raise from early-mid position was "pot" or 7c (3 and a half BBs).
In late position I’d use the same sizing for value hands, but for steal attempts with the bottom half of my range (or ATC against nits) it would be half pot, or 5c (2.5xBB). Players never seemed to realise that I often raised smaller on the button, so didn’t play back by 3-betting light. (They seem to say "Oh he raised, so I fold").
I moved up to 6NL this week and while stealing with smaller raises is still possible, I’ve found (so far) that lots of players are opening in early-mid position to 5 or 6 BB, which seems way too aggro. It also means the implied odds when set-mining aren’t so great. I’m hoping I’ve just been on weird tables with people that have larger standard opening raises, and that I’ll find some more "typical" players in the next few days. :/

|||If you’re at a table where no one notices bet sizes, go ahead and bet 2.5x when stealing and bet 4.5x when you have a monster.

Raises to 5/6x are weird. Haven’t seen that very often. I’ve only seen 60/2 fishes who raise 7x when they have AA or KK but that’s about it. lol

|||I play 6-max and I raise 3.5x UTG, 3x on all other positions and 2.5x on BTN. I sometimes will change these values depending on the table dynamics, if it is a very loose table then I’ll start raising 4x or 3.5x or even 4.5x from all positions. If it is a very tight table, I might start raising 2.5x from as far to the BTN as the hijack.

It all depends bro.

|||Adjusting to table dynamics and to opponents is really important.

I find that when I raise 2.5 on the button people tend to interpret it more as a steal but since I don’t want to bet much bigger I stick to 4x UTG/UTG+1 and 3x everywhere else.

I there are only fish left to act behind me i tend to bet 4x (if they don’t notice) because I want to play bigger pots with them.

December 30

bankroll
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 3:31 PM by admin

Hey, whats a good bankroll to srtart?

|||I started with $10. Played only 2nl. now playing 10nl with a $900 roll. Was good for me!

|||Just get 50$ or smth and start playing 2NL

|||I started with $30 and played 2NL. (15 buy-ins was enough for me, but be prepared to lose it all if you are completely new).
Also look for a 100% deposit bonus from an affiliate site, but read the small print to see how long you have to clear the bonus. I signed with a site that only gave me a month to earn enough reward points (others give you up to a year) and I didn’t get enough volume in, as I wasn’t ready for multi-tabling until the month was up.

|||Hallo im italian, and sorry for my english.
Also, depends of nl and n. of table that u want to play.
imo u must have more that 5 bi for any table that u open.

Gl

|||If you can definitely afford to lose it it’s a good bankroll. If not, not.

|||If you arent a winning player the size of your roll wont matter much unless its so large that you learn to win before going busto…

|||What stakes are you playing?

|||Quote:Originally Posted by chad0x00I started with $10. Played only 2nl. now playing 10nl with a $900 roll. Was good for me!Just curious, about how long did it take from 2nl to 10nl?

|||The leap from 2NL to 10NL can’t be given a timescale, as players put in varying hours and also might be multi-tabling. It also depends on winrates. If you’re crushing 5 tables of 2NL for 15bb/100 for 5 hours a day, your bankroll will soon be big enough to move up. Generally you need 15 buy-ins for each stake, but if you are killing one level after 10,000 hands, you’re usually safe to move up.
See: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32…gement-197887/
and
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh…1&postcount=10

Those posts are both linked in the FAQ: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32…ncement95.html

Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 2:58 PM by admin

I know this fits the ‘Psychology sub-forums’ best. The reason I post it here is simply because I think there are lots of beginners that face this issue too.

Until recently, I dismissed all of this as procrastination, lack of confidence in my own game or simply as fear of losing.

Someone pointed out to me – after a rather long conversation – that I might be afraid of winning (?).. I did some research and found this is indeed a viable possibility. Furthermore, I realized that procrastination might be caused by this.

Examples:

Say I have 40BI’s for playing 10NL, which should be more than enough. I also see that I beat that level on a 40K sample with a decent winrate, so confidence should be good given the experience. If I sense I am beating the competition I suddenly feel something strange.. I’m scared to continue playing.

Or, after I win 5-6 HUSNGs in a row and know I’m doing ‘everything’ right, am very confident, I will usually stop playing without a logical reason.

In a tourney if I make it very deep and am in a commanding lead/or good position to take a great shot at 1st, I will simply think something like ‘alright, I can do it I feel it, so there will certainly be another chance like this’ and take it easy/light for the rest of the game.

What do you think? Is this a psychological leak? If this is the case, how do I plug it? How do I stop undermining myself ?

|||Real-life humble brag?

In all seriousness: Sometimes people are their own worst enemy. Maybe check out The Psychology of Poker?

|||Set volume goals (but not so high that you don’t have time to review your play).

Concentrate on making good decisions.

Stop fretting over results (+ or -)

imo

Good Luck.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by Dragon AshReal-life humble brag?

In all seriousness: Sometimes people are their own worst enemy. Maybe check out The Psychology of Poker?Thanks for the reply, I will take a look at that book. No brag, I just want to improve and I feel this might be an important leak in my mindset.

Quote:Originally Posted by DiamondDogSet volume goals (but not so high that you don’t have time to review your play).

Concentrate on making good decisions.

Stop fretting over results (+ or -)

imo

Good Luck.ty DD

|||Yup, Volume or Time Goals helped me a lot. Before you start a session you tell yourself im going to play for x hours and then quit when you reached your goal no matter how much you are up or down.

|||IMO sticking to volume goals is unnecessary when you are winning. if you are winning big, but are not tired/emotional/annoyed/whatever, then u should keep playing as long as u feel u have an edge at the table/game. the other night I was playing at a cash game LAG table and I was a bit uncomfortable because the LAGgiest player was sitting directly to my left. even though I doubled up and won $350 + .. I left the table within 2 hours because I felt I didn’t have too great of an edge.

However, setting a restriction to your play when u are losing is a good idea. Never lose more then 2 BIs when u are playing cash games because u will probably become very emotional/frustrated. If u lose more then 5 BIs in a row playing SNGs .. u should probably quit for the day also.

as far as being afraid to win .. u might be thinking ‘well I won 5 straight SNG’s, so the odds tell me that I will probably not win the next one or two’ … while it is true that we will EVENTUALLY lose no matter what .. many poker books tell us that an independent event in the past does not affect the current odds of our present event .. in other words .. if u hit quads on hand #101 .. u have the same chance to hit quads on hand #102 (even though the odds are astronomical for hitting quads two hands in a row). hope this makes sense :P

|||oh and u should probably read The Poker Mindset book … http://www.4shared.com/document/izV6…lger_-_Th.html .. it’s a free pdf file. it talks strictly about the psychology of poker and how poker is not about dwelling on past wins/losses … it’s about making the correct decisions hand after hand.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by iforgiveyouoh and u should probably read The Poker Mindset book … http://www.4shared.com/document/izV6…lger_-_Th.html .. it’s a free pdf file. it talks strictly about the psychology of poker and how poker is not about dwelling on past wins/losses … it’s about making the correct decisions hand after hand.Thanks for the reply. Yeah, it makes sense.

|||This is normal and a lot of people struggle with it. You come to the game with a goal, to win. Once you have won, you feel you accomplished your goal, so you quit. When you lose, you have yet to meet your goal, so you continue to play until you have finally won, and then quit. It’s all part of the "short winning session / long losing session" theme. There’s no particular advice on how to avoid this, you just have to become less emotionally involved with winning.

I try to think of it like I would think of my job. If you were a stock broker would you choose to work all night when you are exhausted, hungry, thirsty and tired? No, you would say to yourself "screw this I’m tired, I’m going home. Tomorrow I’ll be freshly rested and alert, prepared to work all day". Poker should be the same way. You dont want to quit when you are doing your best, and stay around when you are doing your worst.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by javiThis is normal and a lot of people struggle with it. You come to the game with a goal, to win. Once you have won, you feel you accomplished your goal, so you quit. When you lose, you have yet to meet your goal, so you continue to play until you have finally won, and then quit. It’s all part of the "short winning session / long losing session" theme. There’s no particular advice on how to avoid this, you just have to become less emotionally involved with winning.

I try to think of it like I would think of my job. If you were a stock broker would you choose to work all night when you are exhausted, hungry, thirsty and tired? No, you would say to yourself "screw this I’m tired, I’m going home. Tomorrow I’ll be freshly rested and alert, prepared to work all day". Poker should be the same way. You dont want to quit when you are doing your best, and stay around when you are doing your worst.
+1

OP you def should set volume or time goals, like a job. This will also help you avoid being results oriented. If you play detached from money, then you will simply make each play as a task to do correctly. Phil Ivey in an interview once said, "when I sit down at the table I never think about the money, only what I need to do in this hand." (paraphrased slightly from ESPN interview)

|||I have a similar thing, I’ve been winning for 2 years but one losing day can make me question my play, attitude, make me wonder if I’ve just run good for a long time etc.

Luckily I’ve been able to kick this recently, not sure what I’ve done to beat it but I seem to have just grown out of it, sure you may too. If not there are loads of books that can help you, one that doesn’t seem directly helpful but I found great was Dusty Schimidts Treat your Poker Like a Business.

|||I def have to get less emotionally involved with winning and the game in general.

ty guys

|||i am exactly like op. after a win a couple bi’s, i quit because im afraid to run bad/get coolered/etc. really hurts my long term ev

i also play and don’t quit until i break even if im down.

|||The more my meager bankroll grows, the harder it is for me not to quit after even a small win. Here’s what I’ve noticed through:

Bad players insta-quit after a winning a big pot with comical frequency. Just while I was typing this two mother****ers quit the hand after sucking out on me. The fish CAN’T WAIT to run away from the table when they’re up a little. We would never think of emulating other lousy traits such as open-limping or slow playing aces vs multiple opponents so why do we adopt this money loser?

|||Quote:Originally Posted by carradioyeswhy do we adopt this money loser?Because you still look at poker as a competitive game and not work. When you’re at the office or the warehouse or the construction yard or whatever it is you do for a living, do you call it a day after you finish one task assigned to you? No, you complete as much as you can within that time period because thats how you get paid. However if you came into work sick that day, constantly ****ing up everything, working at 1/4 pace, and being wholly unproductive, you probably eventually just go home early because you realize you’re wasting your time.

It’s natural to feel competitive playing a game like poker, but try not to think of your goal as beating someone, but instead making money. Maybe keeping your bankroll displayed on the screen would be a good thing, that way as long as it is going up you stay. The moment you see it start going down, you leave.

Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 2:50 PM by admin

i never pay too much attention to the Ev graph, because i dont believe in it.

but know i mentioned the first time, that it can be a huge difference, to watch it in bb or in $.

so what tells me thes ev curve?
am i running under or over ev??

|||dunno whats wrong with the links…
if i reopen the pics in another tab, they are ok.

|||On imageshack use the "direct" link version. Here you go…

|||how-change-avatars-post-pictures-videos

|||ah thanks. it worked the last time i upped a graph, thats why i didnt search the forum…

|||yellow = ev. I wouldnt worry too much about it.

|||yeh, i dont worry at all. i just never noticed, that i ca runder under ev on a bb graph while running over ev at the same $ graph and i just wanna know how this happend.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by HollaTagGirlyeh, i dont worry at all. i just never noticed, that i ca runder under ev on a bb graph while running over ev at the same $ graph and i just wanna know how this happend.Eh? That’s not what I see in the graphs – they look consistent.

Edit: oh i see, one swaps at the end. Yeah stake change is probably the most likely. You played a hand towards the end in a bigger game, where you went in behind and sucked out – probably a pair against a larger pair, probably for something like 2 or 3 levels above your normal game – so the suckout was several orders bigger than usual in cash terms for the same number of bbs.

|||I’m only seeing one graph, but the lines should be the same whether the graphs are tabulated in bb or $, unless you accidentally hit a filter somewhere… or changed stakes at some point (so a bb was worth a different $ amount).

December 30

Pot Odds Question
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 2:48 PM by admin

This was late in a tournament, and I had about 25+ BB when the following hand came.

Hero: KcTc
Villain: ??

Board: Qc Jc Qs Js

Pot: $500
Villain bets $400

Do I have the odds (direct pot odds) to make this call? Should I consider implied odds? I’m figuring I’m getting a bit more than 2:1 from the pot, but I’m thinking my odds to hit the OESFD is higher, and I should fold. However, it’s not easy to lay it down, since my tournament life certainly wouldn’t be on the line with a $400 call, so…

what should I have done?

Note that it became heads up between villain and myself after the flop.

|||Well, first of all you do realize that if the villain has a Q or a J you will still lose even if you do make a flush or a straight, right?

|||Quote:Originally Posted by Lego05Well, first of all you do realize that if the villain has a Q or a J you will still lose even if you do make a flush or a straight, right?lol, yeah so you only have 2 outs, no you don’t have the odds.

|||What range are we putting villain on?

EDIT: Even if he’s monkey-ing around with a lot of small pocket pairs in his range, we’re still screwed

ProPokerTools Holdem SimulationPowered by the Odds Oracle (http://propokertools.com/odds_oracle)board: QJQJ Player Equity Wins Hi Ties Hi

KK,AA,Q,J,22-99 75.7871% 74.0161% 3.5419%KcTc 24.2129% 22.4420% 3.5419%
Then again, I have no idea how you think about this stuff in tournaments. (Have enough trouble getting my head around these spots in cash games.)

|||Yeah, I am, in fact, putting him on the Boat, so I’m drawing only to a straight flush, which I did point out in my original post ("…my odds to hit the OESFD is higher.")

Quote:Originally Posted by DiamondDogWhat range are we putting villain on?

EDIT: Even if he’s monkey-ing around with a lot of small pocket pairs in his range, we’re still screwed

ProPokerTools Holdem SimulationPowered by the Odds Oracle (http://propokertools.com/odds_oracle)board: QJQJ Player Equity Wins Hi Ties Hi

KK,AA,Q,J,22-99 75.7871% 74.0161% 3.5419%KcTc 24.2129% 22.4420% 3.5419%
Then again, I have no idea how you think about this stuff in tournaments. (Have enough trouble getting my head around these spots in cash games.)Well, I do try to put players on ranges, but I find it nearly impossible to do.

I don’t recall if I raised preflop (which would have been helpful for information). I normally do raise this hand PRE, but I’m thinking that I may have just limped, and he called, which of course, gives me no information. I don’t even recall the positions we were in, so maybe this discussion is pointless.

I did not call the bet. I showed the hand, saying something like "I really would like to call this bet", and the table was aghast at my decision, esp. after villain showed a T-high hand.

|||My bad. I need to read posts more carefully.

In that case, you’re drawing to 2 outs, so you have roughly 4% equity.

So you’re 96:4 against hitting = 24:1

Meaning you’d have to expect to make 24 x $400 = $9600 just to break even, and there’s only $900 up for grabs at the moment.

Calling seems a tad optimistic to put it mildly.

imo

|||DiamondDog, first parag. wasn’t meant for you.

Thanks for making me feel better about the laydown. Though $400 wouldn’t have crippled me, I have to remain vigilant about not being results oriented, and to continue trying to make correct decisions.

See, this makes me feel like I’m beating the game if the opponents aren’t capable of making those types of laydowns. In the long run (if that really applies to tournaments – that’s a side point??), they have to lose, and they do; I just wish they’d do so to me.

|||I misread the question. I didn’t realise we were drawing to the OESFD.

Quote:See, this makes me feel like I’m beating the game if the opponents aren’t capable of making those types of laydowns.Laying it down when you don’t have odds to call is money in the bank. Same as folding when you know you’re beat, but would love to see exactly what villain has. That’s another big earner.

Doesn’t matter whether it’s tourneys or cash. Good decisions will get the money in the long run. Understanding that better than your opponents gives you a huge edge. As does understanding that the long run can be mind-bendingly long.

Way easier said than done, of course. I’m guessing we all struggle with it to some extent. I know I do.

Good Luck.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by DiamondDog… would love to see exactly what villain has. That’s another big earner.He had T-high. I would have won.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by grancojonesHe had T-high. I would have won.But as you stated in your previous post, you must stay away from being results oriented.

You made the correct play, you have to lay that hand down in that situation. If you had been first to act there you could have the option of semi bluffing. The aggressor always has an advantage in NL; and we can’t put villain on a specific hand, just a range of hands, so this was an easy fold.

wp sir

|||Folder up unless you have a read on the opponent and move on!

|||Quote:Originally Posted by grancojonesI would have won.Are we talking long term or short term?

There’s a difference.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by DiamondDogAre we talking long term or short term?

There’s a difference.short term

|||Long term is where the money is.

(And I know that you know that.)

Good Luck.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by grancojonesHe had T-high. I would have won.Freaking great laydown still even though he did have T high, and now you should have a better idea of what is range can be in that situation to help you make a more informed decision. and next time you get to punish him with your 21 outer

December 30

Playing On-Line
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 1:48 PM by admin

Hello everyone,
With the way things are right now, is there anyway for a player in the United States to play on-line for money these days? If so, how?

Thanks, Sam

|||Yes

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32…ncement95.html

#7

Needs an updating though as some merge skins are accepting US players again.

|||thank you very much for the help Waffle!!!

Sammy

Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 1:13 PM by admin

that will help me read boards better? Im seriously lacking when it comes to reading a straight draw.

|||For straight draws is nothing that can show you this. There is for flush draw the 4 deck colour.

|||Pre-digital solution: practice with a real deck of cards.

Seriously. Deal a ton of flops and practice working out which hands have what draws.

Good Luck.

|||thanks, ill do this at work when im bored! great idea

|||I’m not going to say there is no software out there to do this, but I would seriously doubt there is.

With practice you will come to notice when straight cards are on the board. Ideally you should be noticing them before the board even has 3 cards to a straight (ie 7 8 K) as part of your initial assesment of board texture.

Here’s a good link on that: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78…exture-442027/

A good basic rule to start off with if you are having trouble is to count 4 each side of a card.

For example, for a 6 you would look to see what cards are between 2-6 (2 3 4 5 6) and 6-T (6 7 8 9 T) and see if there is a 5 card sequence with a gaps anywere in that.

A flop reads 5 6 7, you could have 3 4, 4 8 and 8 9. For a flop 9 J Q you could have 8 T or T K.

Basically what I’m saying is, PRACTICE!

|||thanks a **** load!

December 30

Win rate bb/100
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 12:17 PM by admin

What is average bb/100?

Played about 18k hands with a 3.44/100.

Is this good/bad/average? Also what should i aim for over period of 50k hands?

|||Average winrate among all players is naturally negative because of the rake.
You can’t aim for a specific winrate, just play your best game and see how good you are.

|||Depends on the stakes and how many tables you play.

1bb/100 would be good 24 tabling 100nl but not as good single tabling, 3.44bb would be very good at 100nl but not so much at 2nl.

You can also be a winning player after 100k hands but due to variance you could have lost money after that period.

|||Presuming that figure is post-rake, you’re beating the game. Some people achieve much higher. Most players do worse, and can only break even with rakeback and bonuses.

|||Stakes? If you are beating NL1000 for 3bb/100 then you are crushing. If you are beating NL2 for the same rate you can be doing a lot better.

|||9bb/100 at 20nl mini barg

|||Quote:Originally Posted by MattywizzardAlso what should i aim for over period of 50k hands?What is this supposed to mean anyways? If you’re above that arbitary number you’re going to shove ATC until you drop it back down? When you’re below that number you’re going to… what?

Aim as high as the sky!

|||Aim for 10000bbs/100 mate, look @ ptr for the highest winrate / stake.

December 30

Videos on DC
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 12:14 PM by admin

Hello 2+2
Im seaching for 18, 180,45man sng and mental videos on DC.
Anyone know some kind of list, of all the good videos etc?

|||The push videos are pretty good.. they have a mix of all sorts of mtt and sng videos.

As far as mental videos…. imo there are none better than Tommy Angelo’s Eightfold Path to Poker Enlightenment videos.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by Ice_W0lfThe push videos are pretty good.. they have a mix of all sorts of mtt and sng videos.

As far as mental videos…. imo there are none better than Tommy Angelo’s Eightfold Path to Poker Enlightenment videos.+1

I would also add the 9 part series Pokersense by WiltOnTilt is really good, and covers the basic mental aspects of poker.

Check out the various playlists, they will help you narrow down your choices. Here is an example of a beginner playlist which covers both the mental series recommended along with other basic concepts like math and HEM use/setup.

There are many more of those type of lists in the public playlists section

Hope that helps get you started

GL

|||OMGClayDol does a great series called The Top 0.56 percent which covers pretty much everything you need to get started in the 180s

December 30

Showdown Rules?
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 12:12 PM by admin

Just wondering if two players play to a showdown ie after the river and one player shows the winning hand and the other folds without showing. Is the winning player allowed to request to see the cards the other guy who folded. Just wondering because people seem to say its the case at my home game.

|||I always thought that who ever made the last bet/raise always have to show their cards first. Because if the guy who shows first shows the winner, then the other person can actually muck it. Now, if its checked down, whoever acted first should show down first, regardless of their holdings, imo, for all you know, it may be the winner and you just did not know it.

|||You only have to show if you’re called, and even then you can muck your hand if you want to forfeit a winner. You can be "forced" to show, but it’s considered bad etiquette when i player is trying to forfeit his hand.

When it’s checked down, there’s no clearcut rule as far as I know. You just have to show to win. You can never take down a pot without showing two cards unless it’s folded to you.

|||0) The house rules take precedence. That said, (a) if someone’s house rules are stupid, you can always find a better ‘house’; (b) the following is fairly standard:

1) You never have to show unless you’re all-in in a tournament (or in some cash games).

2) If you’re at showdown, you must either show or muck eventually. If everyone else has mucked, you generally do not have to show.

3) The rule about "who shows first" exists to cover the case where nobody has shown or mucked yet, even after the dealer first asks (a good dealer should do this) "let’s see a winner please" or something along those lines. Getting to this point means that at least two players are being very impolite. Good etiquette is to show or muck promptly. (Good strategy is to always show, because (a) hey, you never know and (b) if you were bluffing with a decent reason to bluff, you generally want people to know that you’re capable of bluffing, and it really doesn’t matter most of the time what cards you were bluffing with.)

4) The rule about "I want to see that hand" exists for a variety of minor reasons, one of which is to reassure players that there is no collusion going on. Being able to ask to see the hands is a privilege, and like any privilege it can be revoked (by the dealer) if abused. If the hand is not retrievable at the time the request is made, then obviously it can’t be honoured. (A good dealer will promptly make mucked hands irretrievable, in most cases; a player who has a real reason to want to see a hand will generally raise the objection immediately.)

If a player who was at showdown makes this request, the mucked hand becomes live, and thus may win the pot. If someone else makes the request, the shown hand is NOT live.

If you have won (let’s say you bet for value on the river, a fish called you, you showed a strong hand and the fish mucked), it is normally a very bad idea to request to see opponent’s hand: the net effect is that you are impolite (which also means you tap the glass; you shouldn’t embarrass the fish by making him show the horrible hand he called you with) AND you might lose a pot that’s currently yours (maybe the fish was chasing a flush and missed, but made a straight that he didn’t notice) AND you won’t really get any meaningful information (again, he presumably had a hand worse than what you showed; if you can’t already guess more precisely than that based on the action, then you need to work on your hand-reading skills).

An exception to that was presented recently in the B&M forum. Player A had AA on the river and Player B had rivered a set with 66. This was during an "Aces Cracked" promotion whereby a player who loses at showdown with AA would receive a prize from the casino. The pot was much smaller than the prize. After some trash-talk, player A showed his AA and player B, spitefully, attempted to muck the winning hand. (The full story is more complicated/interesting; look it up for yourself). Here player A would be justified in asking to see the hand: if he wins, then he wins (and he probably believes villain has at least a decent hand – although as I recall the story, the 66 was actually an underpair to the board the whole way, but the action was fairly quiet), and if he loses, then he can claim the jackpot.

|||I have always played where a mucked hand is mucked and stays like that. I recently found a new place to play and it is full of fishes, but I was called on the river and the guy just called with a set and I mucked my two pair. He then told the dealer he wanted to see my cards and I said I mucked but the dealer turned them over anyway. I was very pissed, but I guess some places have different rules

You are allowed to ask apparently, but its a dumb rule imo

|||If you were called on the river then you should have shown and you were the one out of line. If you bet and get called the next action is on you to show or muck, you can’t wait to see your opponents hand and then decide.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by denksIf you were called on the river then you should have shown and you were the one out of line. If you bet and get called the next action is on you to show or muck, you can’t wait to see your opponents hand and then decide.I think I had middle two pair and I thought he had a flush draw on the flop but he played the hand weird. I bet and he called quickly and I told him "I am pretty sure you got it." He then showed a set and I threw my cards towards the dealer. He then asked to see my cards. Just never had that happen before after I mucked whether I was bet and called or I was the one who called

|||Quote:Originally Posted by TyroberI think I had middle two pair and I thought he had a flush draw on the flop but he played the hand weird. I bet and he called quickly and I told him "I am pretty sure you got it." He then showed a set and I threw my cards towards the dealer. He then asked to see my cards. Just never had that happen before after I mucked whether I was bet and called or I was the one who calledIn this case (you bet and were called), it’s my opinion that he had the right to see your cards.