Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 10:13 PM by admin

Thank you

|||yes

|||Quote:Originally Posted by uganationyes what yes? before or after?

|||I *think* it refers to before blinds are posted, however unless you are very short stacked (maybe late in a tourney situation, not a tourney player so don’t know) it effectively will make very little difference.

|||http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36SQT…e_gdata_player

Before, during, after, every turn

|||Quote:Originally Posted by Syonhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36SQT…e_gdata_player

Before, during, after, every turnhope that clarifies my original and still applicable answer to the OP "yes"

|||I think "effective stacks" are re-evaluated as the hand progresses, just as "win odds" change as more cards are revealed.

When the 78% preflop AA runs into a 56789 board, you’re no longer a 78% favorite to win.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by ractar……
When the 78% preflop AA runs into a 56789 board, you’re no longer a 78% favorite to win.Would have been nice of you to tell me this yesterday! I also just found out that my 44 did not make a monster 3 pair hand that I thought I had on a J7KKJ board

|||At the beginning of the hand. The blind size has no effect on effective stacks because it is so small that doesn’t count. Three players go to the flop with the following stacks each:

Game 1/2 NL
Dude1=$350
Dude2=275
Dude3=$850

Effective stacks (ES) are $275 or 137bb.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by PapaPyriteWould have been nice of you to tell me this yesterday! I also just found out that my 44 did not make a monster 3 pair hand that I thought I had on a J7KKJ board Blame the OP for not posting his question a day earlier.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by always_tiltingAt the beginning of the hand. The blind size has no effect on effective stacks because it is so small that doesn’t count. Three players go to the flop with the following stacks each:

Game 1/2 NL
Dude1=$350
Dude2=275
Dude3=$850

Effective stacks (ES) are $275 or 137bb.Effective stacks for DUDE2 are 275. Dude1 can still win 350 from dude3.

|||And blind size DOES have an effect on determing effective stacks. There are numerous variations of blinds and straddles that effect the odds of playing a hand, especially in a tournament where blinds will at some point have a great impact on stacks.

Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 10:06 PM by admin

Hi,

I have some problems with 3bet bluffing. I’m not a fan of multitabling 50 tables, I like to play with marginal hands versus creative players but sometimes, I get lost in the hand and lose all my chips for a pure bluff. When I am in mood and try to play my A-Game I make some moves that I really like, but sometimes I miss opportunities.

Do you guys have a theory with this? When to 3bet bluff and not? A general idea?

This should be the trick of improving my game and I need some advice.

Thanks.

İlker.

|||When to 3-bet bluff is entirely opponent dependent. Post some stats or some hand histories and maybe we can help. Without that, forget it.

As for getting "lost in the hand", I’m not sure what you mean. It sounds like you’re 3-betting as a bluff, getting called, trying to rep something big on the flop, getting called…..and suddenly you’re out of position, in a huge pot, with almost nothing. You don’t want to show the hand down, but you think there is a good chance that a big bluff will get called and you’ll be finished.

You went into the hand without a plan. There’s your problem. If you’re going to be making big moves pre-flop, you had better have a solid post-flop plan and stick to it. Abandon the move when it gets out of hand. Put your opponent on a range, and evaluate the board texture. Make decisions as you go, that are congruent with the original plan.

Stop doing this:

pre-flop: "Ok he raised, but his range is wide, I’m goign to 3-bet and rep a big pair even though I only have QT. Oh what he called? Hmmmm….ok?
Flop K74: "He just checked to me, I guess I should represent that King. Here’s a bet. He called? Hmmm, he didn’t raise so maybe he doesn’t have a King. Maybe he has JJ and thinks I just c-bet with AQ or something:
Turn J: "He checked again. i was worried about JJ, but now I’m open ended. I can still get him to fold AQ, Kx, A7. I’ll bet again. What? He raised? ****, oh well, I’m open ended…call"
River 8: "I missed, and villain just made a value bet on the river. I think I can rep 56 if I make a big bet. Yeah, everything I’ve done so far probably matchest that. Shove. WHAT THE FFFFFFFF, he called!!?? With KQ!!?? What a fish!!??

|||Obviously so dependant on a lot of factors. I can only suggest a few thought processes rather than any guide as such.
From what position are you bluffing? ie. on the BTN the blinds etc.When in those positions who are you 3beting? Early position open, late position open.Is that player a nit? Have you seen them fold to a 3bet or are they just flatting habitually?If flatted do you plan on cbeting or giving up?If you’re in position what do you do if donked into for 1/2 pot?How do the last two questions apply to different flop textures?

|||Out of interest, what games are you playing? What stakes?

You could be suffering from a case of "fancy play syndrome". Remember the goal of a tourney is to make money by placing in the money, not to win individual pots with bluffs.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by jimjamjahaaOut of interest, what games are you playing? What stakes?

You could be suffering from a case of "fancy play syndrome". Remember the goal of a tourney is to make money by placing in the money, not to win individual pots with bluffs.I’m playing the MTT’s up to 109′s. It’s not about the fancy play syndrome, I don’t think that with your own cards, without representing anything, without bluffing, you can’t reach the last stages of the tournament. I need to be a bit more creative and I’m working on that. I try to play more pots in position to outplay them on the flop but sometimes I get lost as NoLimitNinjaBri said. I’m not that "lame" as mentioned but I need some routes.

For example, would you rather bet the aggresive players than the nit ones? The nits always show up with the good cards when they open. The aggresive ones play the flop, so you have other chances than preflop.

When you are having a deep run, I think applying pressure on the nits is more effective, especially the ones who have won a flip versus another nit and got deep in the tournament.

I dunno,

Appreciate all your advices guys, ty.

|||The reason i ask about stakes and mentioned fancy play syndrome is that in the very cheap MTTs it’s choc full of complete donks so you don’t do yourself any favours by getting creative (at least in the early stages)
Quote:When you are having a deep run, I think applying pressure on the nits is more effective.Very true.

Maybe it might help to play some NL10 cash games? You will get much more post flop experience and learn to hand read better which will in turn help you apply pressure in just the right spots in tournaments.

Don’t go playing LAG or anything tho… you want to try and have a similar image to what you’d get in a tourney so that people react to you in a similar way.

Idk really

|||Quote:Originally Posted by MarvelleI’m playing the MTT’s up to 109′s. It’s not about the fancy play syndrome, I don’t think that with your own cards, without representing anything, without bluffing, you can’t reach the last stages of the tournament. I need to be a bit more creative and I’m working on that. I try to play more pots in position to outplay them on the flop but sometimes I get lost as NoLimitNinjaBri said. I’m not that "lame" as mentioned but I need some routes.

For example, would you rather bet the aggresive players than the nit ones? The nits always show up with the good cards when they open. The aggresive ones play the flop, so you have other chances than preflop.

When you are having a deep run, I think applying pressure on the nits is more effective, especially the ones who have won a flip versus another nit and got deep in the tournament.

I dunno,

Appreciate all your advices guys, ty.I don’t do much pure bluffing. That said semi bluffing draws, and stealing blinds more as the blinds rise is pretty standard. So, for me position and reads are the most important factors.

In late stages, in late position I think it is sometimes correct to open raise any two cards pre flop. Is that bluffing?

Marginal or less value situations that need fold equity in the calculation, like some draws, vulnerable pocket pairs, etc. Hands that are way ahead/way behind, I raise aggressively vs foldy opponents. (Stack size, relative position, reads, yada yada)

I don’t consider much of the above to be exactly bluff, although they often depend on villain folding X per cent of the time to be for value.

Sorry if I am not clear enough here. Did the best I could

Also, I just reread your OP title so three bluffing, ya hu I sometimes do it lite but only situationally. Putting pressure on small stacks when I am deep stacked, maybe, rarley when the pot is large and worth the risk (again hu) idk I don’t 3 bet bluff a lot at all. Kinda dangerous in most situations.

December 30

need some help
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 9:44 PM by admin

does any one have a link where i can get on poker stars cash site…im wanting to watch some real games not the play money stuff, but for somereason i cant even download it, with the block….and you cant locate players on the play money site…im in the US obv…thanks

Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 9:00 PM by admin

Hi everyone sorry if this is the wrong section but I am looking for some suggestions on books for live poker, mostly NL and PLO tournaments, I’m going to be going to PCA in jan for a vac/poker and was wondering if anyone could suggest some good books for live play strategy, thanks!

December 30

Can play money help?
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 7:31 PM by admin

Can playing play money help in this case Heads up 200NL
I want to become a better Poker player/Heads up.
I understand that alot of the donks will just be playing rags
and not having a clue what they are doing but could this help
my game at all if I play similar to the way I would if it were real money?

|||Not really. People don’t play the same with play money and you get no practice controlling tilt or bank roll management using play money.

|||Deposit, read articles, post hands and discuss theory will help you improve. Play money is rubbish.

|||I started playing FR play money 2 years ago. Now I play fr nl 50. If you have no poker experience play money helps. I learned how to calculate pot odds because there are a lot of All-in on the flop. Should you call with a draw or not? I worked my way up to about 10 mil play chips and lost it all very fast. I was bummed…lol. It was the 1st big BR lesson for me. It took loosing my BR 3 times once at play money and twice with real money. I have not lost my BR in a year. I started playing with real $ when I was bak up to about 10 mil. Those points are still sitting there on my PS account.

|||To learn the basic rules and betting structures of the games: Yes

To get any idea how the actual flow of the games/action go: Hell no.

|||You could potentially use playmoney to learn how to tighten up in full ring games and play according to pot odds. People will be bluffing constantly, but I have seen flops dealt and a few normal sized raises take place before everyone just starts shoving their stacks in. However most players are usually just going allin with random cards for the fun of it, so you wont get to see that many flops. Instead you will basically just be playing a preflop game of like AK and JJ+.

December 30

2NL Pre flop play
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 6:57 PM by admin

Hey guys,

Ive been playin alot of full ring 2NL on stars recently and ive noticed my preflop play slipping a bit and as result my post flop decisions are getting tougher. Can you give me advice on what hands to open raise, 3bet, limp behind and call a raise with.

Thanks

|||I don’t know about that but I’ve been testing something on 6max and it seems to be working wonders, I 3bet so much and they start playing back with crap(some don’t so it’s like printing money), if you put enough pressure they start misadjusting and shoving with stuff like 77/KQ against you.

This should work fine for FR imo.
UTG : 22+ AQ+
MP: AJs+ KQs+ 22+
And co and button I just raise and 3bet like a "maniac"

|||Quote:Originally Posted by zerekethI don’t know about that but I’ve been testing something on 6max and it seems to be working wonders, I 3bet so much and they start playing back with crap(some don’t so it’s like printing money), if you put enough pressure they start misadjusting and shoving with stuff like 77/KQ against you.

This should work fine for FR imo.
UTG : 22+ AQ+
MP: AJs+ KQs+ 22+
And co and button I just raise and 3bet like a "maniac"raising pocket pairs smaller than say 77 or 88 UTG in FR might be a bit too loose? you will be flopping overcards way too often for you to be able to play profitably without reads postflop i feel.

Not for the inexperienced…

|||Quote:Originally Posted by 2nl_donkraising pocket pairs smaller than say 77 or 88 UTG in FR might be a bit too loose? you will be flopping overcards way too often for you to be able to play profitably without reads postflop i feel.

Not for the inexperienced…True, but they fold so much it’s unbelievable and if they don’t you stack them one of them has to be true right?
Anyways might be wrong I’m not that much of a FR fan too nitty for my taste.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by Dannystu12Hey guys,

Ive been playin alot of full ring 2NL on stars recently and ive noticed my preflop play slipping a bit and as result my post flop decisions are getting tougher. Can you give me advice on what hands to open raise, 3bet, limp behind and call a raise with.

ThanksFirst of all, don’t limp behind or open limp. It’s almost never the right play.

The rest of your question is hugely situational and depends on position, table conditions and your reads. So there is not an easy answer. There are many good charts and guides that will give you a general set of hands to open in different positions but you still have to adjust for your game and table conditions.

The ranges Zereketh shows may be fine for an experienced player with great postflop skills, but are probably too loose for your situation and especially playing FR. I would play FR much tighter from EP and MP, you can loosen up quite a bit from LP. IMO your postflop decisions are getting tougher, as you say, because you are probably playing OOP too much with marginal hands. The easy answer is of course to play IP more and only open very strong hands from early to middle position. I usually open only about a 3-6% range in those positions.

|||What you propose is full ring suicide. I really think there’s only one way to consistently beat 2NL, and that’s with insane discipline. You don’t beat 2NL players by being better than them, you beat them by being more solid. If you’re patient, they’ll just give you their money. Hell, that’s true all the way up through 10NL (maybe 25NL we’ll see). Just play tight. Bet your made hands aggressively and give up when you don’t have it. you’ll win. I promise.

Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 6:12 PM by admin

I’m new too this pming

|||wow sick 1st post.

It actually is tied to number of posts some how, so get to posting to enable.

|||Beginners Forum Frequently Asked Questions

|||Most accounts that want access to PMs right away are spammers. Some are scammers. These rules make it a little bit more difficult to create disposable accounts for these purposes (especially spambots).

If you fall into neither of these categories, then likely the reason you want PMs ASAP is to participate in transfers, staking, coaching, prop betting or some other transaction with people you don’t know.

By creating this thread you have demonstrated that you are unaware of or ignore the standard practices, conventions and norms of online forums such as reading FAQs, lurking before posting and searching. This implies that you are ill prepared to do the necessary due diligence required to prevent being taken advantage of. Waiting some time before enabling PMs helps to prevent people from jumping right in, taking no precautions and being scammed.

Please reconsider engaging in any such transactions until you are more seasoned, knowledgeable and better able to practice safe Internet. Please carefully read all available FAQs and stickies related to whatever high risk activity you are attempting to engage in before proceeding.

December 30

Stats for snghu
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 4:43 PM by admin

Hello,

i play 5$ sng hu in some month i may switch to 10$ if i run that good like the last few months and i want to ask u if its rentable to play with a HUD in husngs and if yes wich stats i should display? and is sng wizard good to analyse husngs aswell mtts and other sngs?Would be very nice if u can help me out.

|||nobody can help me out? :S

|||thaught this forum were good pity..

Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 4:07 PM by admin

… and not sure if it’s the right move or not. May be too early to tell, but I’m starting to think it’s not that good of an idea. I’m trying to play tight of course in all other positions, but I think I’m taking too many chances, and I’m starting to anger a lot of people by doing it.

Started making a lot of calls last night on the button with just about any connector (suited or otherwise). got lucky a few times, took down some interesting pots and got yelled at about a dozen times by half a dozen different people for playing this way. It’s sort of weird, over 15k hands not once did anyone question my play. Then the minute I open up on the button, I’m suddenly the worlds worst poker player and everyone hates me.

didn’t turn out well though in the end, eventually was down 3 buy ins for the night when I decided to put a stop to the evening’s events.

So due to my losses and due to being called a horrible poker player i’m thinking I won’t play so loose anymore on the button.

My VPIP numbers for last night (600 hands):

SB: 13.9
BB: 16.1
EP: 10.9
MP: 13.3
CO: 25.0
BN: 50.0

So I definitely was successful in opening up, and was successful in tightening my range in EP. It’s one thing to limp or raise with 56o, but should I be calling pre flop raises by others with these hands while on the BTN?

Thanks.

|||That’s a better distribution than your last update, the UTG looks better especially. Still think you need to tighten those first 2 seats just a bit more IMO

I think you are doing it wrong in CO and BTN honestly, don’t limp or cold call with 56o or similar. If you have a good read and want to make a play with smth like that great, and then if seeing a flop trust your postflop ability (maybe work on that as well).

Here’s an example: MP opens 3.5x, folds to you on BTN. If you see that MP has 80% fold to 3bet and 60% fold to cbet, then you could profitably play a hand like 56o by re-raising (another 2.5x maybe), if he calls and checks, then cbet most flops. But cold calling there is suicide IMO

Also, if unopened pot and OTB I would never limp, and especially not with marginal hands like 56o there. It’s a weak hand that makes weak pairs or miss most flops, but if you are going to make a play then your cards are less important than your reads and the spots you choose to play. In other words, the reason you should open up in CO and BTN playing 6-max is more about your position and how you can put pressure on the blinds. Or punish limpers if you have good speculative hands.

You really don’t want to be playing postflop much with 56o or similar, even with position, you won’t hit 2 pair or OESD enough to make it profitable. So focus on what your opponents tendencies are, and how you can pick spots to exploit those tendencies. What cards you hold is really less important than these other factors when you are in late position.

Just my $.02

BTW – who cares what others are typing in chat? Are you there to make friends or take their money? I would rather be called a donk, and be up 3 BI than be everyones favorite donor.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by PapaPyriteBetter distribution than your last update, the UTG looks better especially. Still think you need to tighten those first 2 seats just a bit more IMO

I think you are doing it wrong in CO and BTN honestly, don’t limp or cold call with 56o or similar. If you have a good read and want to make a play with smth like that great, and then trust your postflop ability (maybe work on that as well).

Here’s an example: MP opens 3.5x, folds to you on BTN. If you see that MP has 80% fold to 3bet and 60% fold to cbet, then you could profitably play a hand like 56o and re-raise another 2.5x, if he calls and checks, then cbet most flops. But cold calling there is suicide IMO

Also, if unopened and you are BTN I would never limp with marginal hands like that 56o there. It is a weak hand, but if you are going to make a play then your cards are less important than your reads and the spots you choose to make plays. In other words, the reason you should open up in CO and BTN playing 6-max is more about your position and how you can put pressure on the blinds. Or punish limpers if you have good speculative hands. You really don’t want to be playing postflop much with 56o or similar, even with position, you won’t hit 2 pair or OESD enough to make it profitable. So focus on what your opponents tendencies are, and how you can pick spots to exploit those tendencies. What cards you hold is really less important than these other factors when you are in late position.

Just my $.02Thanks for the very constructive info

December 30

3x BB Pre-Flop Raise
Posted on December 30th, 2011 at 4:06 PM by admin

Is betting 3x or 4x BB pre-flop on pretty much every hand within my "range" when in early-mid positions a good strategy to rigidly follow? not necessarily 100% but as a basic strategy?

1. Disguise hand strength since AA appears the same as low suited connectors or mid-pairs
2. pressure on blinds; thins out crowd
3. if anyone comes over the top then you know its probably safe to dump the hand without too much loss unless your holding premiums
4. have the option of post flop raises which appear very strong since you also pre-flopped raise (maybe even a bluff at this point?) and villains would probably dump any **** hand, letting you know who’s a real contender if they stick around
5. could check to set traps
6. 4 and 5 could be mixed up to confuse opponents (IE: you check, he thinks your trapping; you’re just looking for a free card really…this time)

What’s some of your guys’ strategies? since this seems to be a major part of the game, if you can’t handle pre-flop well then you probably wont see many pots come your way.

|||Yes, never base your raise on your hand strength. Rather base it on position. In early position you want to put less money in the pot then in late position. So early I tend to raise around 2.5-3 BB but in late position I tend to raise 3.5-5 bb. Also base the amount of your raise on the table. If raising 3BB from EP still get’s you five limpers, then raise 6BB or even 10BB, whatever it takes. Or, online, move tables

|||4bb as a standard from all positions 10nl and lower (3bb BU if you want).
25nl and higher 3bb from all possies.
If someone limps add a bb per limper as a general rule.
If a fish limps and calls pre almost no matter what make it LARGE like 6x

|||Quote:Originally Posted by tisaOr, online, move tables Good point lol, those micro stakes games I think people just limp call everything with the sole purpose to make your life worse.

|||Quote:Good point lol, those micro stakes games I think people just limp call everything with the sole purpose to make your life worse.No, to make your bankroll better. I just mean if you find it hard to play an aggro loose table, look for a tighter one in the lobby (low avg pot size, low number of players to the flop). Don’t move up limits.

|||Quote:Originally Posted by tisaYes, never base your raise on your hand strength. Rather base it on position. In early position you want to put less money in the pot then in late position. So early I tend to raise around 2.5-3 BB but in late position I tend to raise 3.5-5 bb. Also base the amount of your raise on the table. If raising 3BB from EP still get’s you five limpers, then raise 6BB or even 10BB, whatever it takes. Or, online, move tables It’s the other way around. You should raise less in LP and more in EP you will be oop often. Since your range is much weaker in LP and you often have Position. I make it 3.5x EP, CO 3x BTN 2.5x, SB 3.5x. 3x from all Position is fine too i would say, unless you get 3B a ton from the blinds then maybe lower your size in LP

|||Quote:It’s the other way around. You should raise less in LP and more in EP you will be oop often. Since your range is much weaker in LP and you often have Position. I make it 3.5x EP, CO 3x BTN 2.5x, SB 3.5x. 3x from all Position is fine too i would say, unless you get 3B a ton from the blinds then maybe lower your size in LP O.o

Dude seriously if you believe this, you should start evaluating your game ASAP.

You raise less in EP because
a) raising from EP always show strength, 2.5 BB is enough to say I have something
b) you will get 3bet far more from EP then from LP because of the simple reason that more villains to act behind you
c) if you get called you will be out of position, you will lose the pot a lot more
d) raising from LP doesn’t necessary mean that you are strong, you can eg. raise to steal so you raise more to put pressure
e) if you get called from LP you will be in position, which rules, you will win the hand far more often then out of position

|||uhm like every of your points is wrong last one is true

|||I have to agree with DieHard at least if we’re talking about no limit.

a) 2.5BB is enough to show strength but our goal isn’t to show it but rather to get value with our stronger hands.
b) We’ll be 3bet more but if we’re raising from EP our range is also a lot stronger. Please 3bet me if I have AA-JJ.
c) Not entirely true. We’re playing stronger hands. And if you do say we lose more then we should discourage callers (by betting more) so that we don’t have to play the hand out of position.
d) Now the opposite is true. Why put more money in when our hands are generally weaker? This is the spot where we’ll be 3bet more and fold more often because our range is weaker and because it looks more like a steal.
e) With this I can agree. But if we’re in position it’s also easier to control pot size during the hand so there’s no need to bloat the pot preflop.

And this is also good advice:
Quote:If someone limps add a bb per limper as a general rule.
If a fish limps and calls pre almost no matter what make it LARGE like 6x

|||Oh boy…I’m so wrong!

Have you guys moved up yet to where they respect your play?? I haven’t, maybe that’s why I don’t get it!

tnx!

|||Tisa, in microstakes often our play won’t be respected because fish have no idea what they’re doing but that’s ok because they’ll make loads of mistakes.

That’s why it’s better to play more ABC poker with less bluffing and by putting more money in when our hands are generally better (depending on position, not on hand strength). Also, taking away pots in position only works if the opponent knows how to fold.

3/4 months ago I followed the same logic you did until someone opened my eyes. I’m glad we could do the same for you.

By the way, you’re in Belgium? Me too!

|||At 2NL, my standard open raise from early-mid position was "pot" or 7c (3 and a half BBs).
In late position I’d use the same sizing for value hands, but for steal attempts with the bottom half of my range (or ATC against nits) it would be half pot, or 5c (2.5xBB). Players never seemed to realise that I often raised smaller on the button, so didn’t play back by 3-betting light. (They seem to say "Oh he raised, so I fold").
I moved up to 6NL this week and while stealing with smaller raises is still possible, I’ve found (so far) that lots of players are opening in early-mid position to 5 or 6 BB, which seems way too aggro. It also means the implied odds when set-mining aren’t so great. I’m hoping I’ve just been on weird tables with people that have larger standard opening raises, and that I’ll find some more "typical" players in the next few days. :/

|||If you’re at a table where no one notices bet sizes, go ahead and bet 2.5x when stealing and bet 4.5x when you have a monster.

Raises to 5/6x are weird. Haven’t seen that very often. I’ve only seen 60/2 fishes who raise 7x when they have AA or KK but that’s about it. lol

|||I play 6-max and I raise 3.5x UTG, 3x on all other positions and 2.5x on BTN. I sometimes will change these values depending on the table dynamics, if it is a very loose table then I’ll start raising 4x or 3.5x or even 4.5x from all positions. If it is a very tight table, I might start raising 2.5x from as far to the BTN as the hijack.

It all depends bro.

|||Adjusting to table dynamics and to opponents is really important.

I find that when I raise 2.5 on the button people tend to interpret it more as a steal but since I don’t want to bet much bigger I stick to 4x UTG/UTG+1 and 3x everywhere else.

I there are only fish left to act behind me i tend to bet 4x (if they don’t notice) because I want to play bigger pots with them.